2Jul/0811
Todd Bentley – Body Guards
One quick rhetorical question for the Bentley supporters. If Todd can knock people down by the power of the "Holy Spirit", why does he need body guards? Kinda odd, no? What about the "angels" protecting him? Where are they when he needs them? Maybe they just aren't paying attention?
July 12th, 2008 - 18:47
I know a rhetorical question doesnt require an answer, but then I thought,
” why would you ask a “rhetorical” question, several actually, and then request that everyone leave a reply…It is either because you don’t actually know what a rhetorical question is or maybe you’re just throwing your theories out there hoping you’ll get someone to join you in your destructive theories so you can further raise your opinion of yourself and how smart you are…I must assume it is the latter since you appear to know everything and have the monopoly on all the knowledge of the universe and are therefore able to be right about everything that you speak about…but since you are actually speaking out of ignorance, let me enlighten you with just a little bit that I do know…Todd Bentley has never claimed it was his power that “knocked down” people, as you say.. In fact, he readily says consistantly that it is God’s power working through him and he further makes it plain that when God’s power is not on him then he is incapable of doing any of these things including healing…He states when the services are over and the anointing is not on him that he is just a regular guy with all the shortcomings (like the rest of us)….He also states that any believer can be used by God in the same manner if they maintain an intimate relationship with the Lord (yes, Jesus..yeah the one that died on the cross)….did you ever read about people falling under the power of God in the Bible and not being able to get up? did you ever read about angels interacting with people in the Bible? did you ever read about believers laying hands on others and getting healed in the Bible? It’s all there, read it. Maybe if you spent only a fraction of the time you spend trying to run down other Christians who have given their lives to the faith, you, too, could have a ministry responsible for over a million salvations in just 10 years of ministry like Todd Bentley….The evil spirit of haughtiness pervades your every word….you even think you are doing everybody a service by “exposing” these “false teachers” while being deceived yourself by your own pride and thirst for acceptance, power, and standing…right now your stomach churns, your heart pounds, your muscles tighten, your blood pressure rises as you read this…you cant be wrong and you wont be wrong..and therein lies the problem….none of us have all knowledge….if you possessed 90% of all the knowledge in the universe ( which, by the way, is impossible and you don’t) there is still within that 10% unknown the possibility that you are wrong…those that speak with the certainities that you do I have found make fools of themselves in the longrun……..
July 12th, 2008 - 19:22
People like you reply, to attempt to make me look stupid. How exactly does it make me look smart, to allow your comments through? How is it prideful, to allow your comments through?
I asked rhetorical questions, meaning I didn’t expect an answer.
If I was like every false minister out there, I would not allow comments like yours through, because I would have something to hide. You really are working for the accuser of the brethren, that has become clear. What kind of vicious viper are you?
July 12th, 2008 - 19:31
You know, it never does cease to amaze me how Bentley supports are always so vicious. EVERY report I have heard of people speaking against this false prophet, has been met with
1. blindness
2 .breaking of friendships by the Bentley supporter, even though the other party shows love, and willingness to remain friends.
3. Vicious attacks against those who KNOW that Todd Bentley is a deceiver
I state the facts, nothing more. I do not have any personal bad feelings towards Todd. He’s simply a wolf in sheep’s clothing. It is very non-emotional for me. What does make me emotional, is the MILLIONS of souls that will be LOST (not saved) because of him. But, I leave the wrath up to God, for He will bring judgment at some point or another. Here is the faith, and the patience, of the saints.
I believe this is only the beginning of the GREAT APOSTACY spoke of in 2 Thessalonians 2
. God will keep His own.
July 12th, 2008 - 19:59
trenton….I wasnt trying to make you look stupid…In fact, I dont think you are stupid at all…In fact, I think you are too intelligent for your own good and when it comes to spiritual matters, that’s bad…we have to become “as little children”….difficult for us to do….God’s logic is not necesarily the logic that we know no matter how much we may want to apply it and how much it just seems “logical”.. our God is not “logical”, at least not in the manner we know logic…no, I wasnt trying to make you look stupid, but anyone who speaks so assuredly, yet from ignorance, tends to paint himself into a corner that makes him look stupid….you have spoken out on many things in your posts and you have done it with zeal and certainty and I know you think you cant be wrong but you are, in fact, ignorant of the facts when it comes to the things surrounding Todd Bentley, Patricia King, and related events…most of the points you make are in stark contrast to what I have heard coming from the mouths of these people and from their writings ..I honestly dont know where you get it…I believe you have a mindset going in and you are doing cursory research and pulling out tidbits that you think make your case (based on your mindset) instead of looking for what the true meat is…I could give an answer to all your claims and theories but I dont think it would matter, because you will not concede and you will not be wrong….I was a cop for 27 years in a large city and Ive investigated every crime you can think of many times over…I solved my cases by looking for the truth no matter where it led me and no matter what my personal feelings were…I had to approach every case with no mindsets, no prejudices and no predispostions..I do the same in my life….Todd Bentley is no one to me..it’s probably been less than 6 months that I have even heard his name…being a cop for all of my adult life made me a skeptic and sometimes a cynic, but I know that I must get the whole picture before I condemn (and I have learned not to condemn even then)…I was “skeptical” when I first heard about Todd Bentley but I wanted to be open and know if he was the real thing and give him a chance to ” fly or die”…Jesus said that “by their fruits, we will know them”…without going into all the details, the fruits of freshfire ministry are overwhelming ….they are nothing to argue with….I have read his book which includes his biography and accounts of the early years of his ministry and truly cant see how one could construe things the way that you have…
anyway, as far as your last comments..I never called you a false minister, just told you that your pride was guiding you….and I will overlook the comment about calling me a vicious viper because I know your blood pressure was rising at the time and your stomach was churning…. I appreciate your zeal, though misguided I believe….let us be friends
July 12th, 2008 - 20:12
just saw your other post….
“You know, it never does cease to amaze me how Bentley supports are always so vicious. ”
Trenton, you are showing your age sir…You are obviously a young man because you have obviously not experienced viciousness yet in your life …I have been on the receiving end, countless times, of the kind of viciousness most people will never experience in a lifetime and I know what viciousness is ….my words above have no viciousness in them…if you think it’s vicious to yell at a kid for running out in the street or telling your friend his zipper’s down or telling a lost person they are going to hell if they dont know Jesus or telling a brother in Christ that he has a pride problem that is causing him to judge and criticize, then, ok, Im guilty …it was viscious…and in that case, I raised three beautiful daughters that I love in that visciousness and they turned out great and they love me so much that two of them moved their families right next door…so hooray for “viciousness” if thats what it takes……
July 12th, 2008 - 23:29
Dear Monte,
I do the very same thing. I was raised to do that. Personally, I love the way my brother is handling his children. If one of them holds a grudge, prejudice, or whatever, against another, he turns his back on them, and will not listen to them. The bible says that is what God will do to us if we hold grudges, prejudices, etc. He will not forgive us. And, it cuts right to their heart.
Todd Bentley attempts to sell the anointing. It’s that simple. Perhaps you simply haven’t done enough research to see the blindingly obviousness of this. Have you even read all of the links on the emma angel of light thread?
Honestly, I have no prejudice against Todd Bentley. I never have. In fact, I was extremely intrigued by the guy initially. Initially, I wanted to get some insight into angels, in case I ever ran into one. The Lord gave me a dream, when I did not ask for it, and was not seeking for it, and showed me (well, actually, TOLD ME) that he is accepting demons as angels of light. Monte, do I ignore that? Do I ignore the FACT that he sells anointed handkerchiefs (at a conference my own wife went to)? Do I ignore the fact that he sells the anointing in other ways as well (see the loophole of the kingdom article). Do I ignore that people come away from his ministry being demons possessed (granted, discovered by hearsay, but it’s very convincing based on what I know)? Do I ignore God TELLING me, and I quote, that he is “DECEIVING MILLIONS“??? Monte, the evidence is weighed against him. I have prayed for him off and on since 2003. If I was just out to get the guy, I could think of a lot of lies to spread about him that would be very ingenious and believable. But I’m not that type of person. I NEVER hold prejudices, or preconceived ideas of others, I am not vindictive, I don’t hold grudges, etc, etc, etc. I was raised to love people, and it leaves a REALLY bad taste in my mouth when I do any of those things, so I am SIMPLY UNABLE TO DO SO.
I am not perfect Monte. I don’t always perfectly love. I’m simply not perfect. But, I am PURE IN HEART. You can judge me all you want, and call me prideful, arrogant, or all manner of other things. But your words mean nothing to me. Why is it that sooooooooooooooooooo many people always comment to my parents, and behind my back to others, about what a great person I am? Why do Christians tell my parents about how WONDERFUL their boys are? WHY Monte? Is it because their boys are prideful, arrogant, or the like? I THINK NOT Monte. I don’t know me. You are judging me by what you are reading. You are judging me because I am confident in what I believe. Jesus preached as one with AUTHORITY. Do you know that was the VERY REASON the pharisees HATED Him? Am I to expect anything different?
My parents raised me well. They raised me to love God, and them. They raised me to learn from God, rather than them, or anyone else (not that I don’t listen to others, because I do). They brought me up in the way of righteousness.
I understand that stating things in a form of “certainty” can make people upset, and even to think that you are prideful. But, would you want me to be speaking out against a minister of the gospel if I was not ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of their heresy? Would I not be completely evil to do so, unless I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN? And, if I am certain, is it not implied that I will automatically come across as being certain, and confident?
More often than not Monte, people that have accused me of being prideful, have been found to be GROSSLY prideful themselves. I’m not talking about just my view of them. I’m talking about a whole whack of people asking me if I felt the same way. And then we would pray for that person.
Honestly Monte, if you have read these things about Todd, and the evil he is in, you are either not believing the accusations, don’t have enough information, or you are deceived. There’s no middle ground on that one. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and believe that you simply do not understand who this man is.
Have you heard Todd’s testimony? A minister of the gospel threw a bible at him, and told him to open it and point, then read. He read it, and it BLEW him away, because it was directly for him. His immediate response was “How do I do that”? His initial desire to be in the kingdom was to do signs and wonders. That was what he wanted. Oh, and he got just what he wanted. Simon the sorcerer in acts wanted the same thing. And he wanted to pay for it. And, Todd just wants to sell it. I shrugged that point off, because of my nature of not wanting to have preconceived ideas of others, and base judgments on the little things. I just can’t help it, that’s the way I’m wired.
July 13th, 2008 - 13:38
Trenton….I understand all your points…I have read all the “stuff” that everyone has written about Todd Bentley and I also see the spin that is attached also which changes everything..it is interesting to me that your stand about Todd Bentley falls on the same side of the line that the secular media, non-chirstians, and liberals falls…and, yes, there are a lot of Christians just like you that feel the way you do but it is interesting that in this particular subject, your opinion falls in line with the same people who despise Christians and think that killing babies and same sex marriage is just “peachy”. I would expect a true disciple of the Lord to be getting the exact criticism that he is.
I have read his testimony as I said earlier…His book includes his testimony, his life before Christ, his conversion, all of his crusades around the world and many testimonies from many other people who witnessed the things that have happened during all these crusades around the world…The picture that you paint is so completely different from firsthand information from him and others around him and associates in other countries in the book and what I have witnessed in the revival on tv and those who stand with him and make those opinions known elsewhere as well…since the angel thing seems to be the main bone of contention, I have to say that he does talk about angels….he also says frequently in the meetings and in the book that angels are just angels, God’s messengers, nothing else…Jesus is the object of his affection…He has never tried to deify an angel or even acted remotely like there was some kind of angel worship going on…His acts back up his claims that this is for the Lord…I dont know about the prayer cloth thing because he was giving them away in Lakeland but I guarantee he wasnt selling them in africa to the orphans that they built a new orphanage for and supplied them with food that they desperately needed….he wasnt selling prayer cloths to the 1000s of desperate people who got healed and saved in these countries under freshfire ministry….I could go on…I know you have an answer for all of this but just save it…Jesus said that we would know them by their fruit and if you cant see the fruit here then I dont know what to tell you…It seems that everything has hinged on this dream that you had and it colors everything else….you fail to see any good and you use weak arguments to make your points…you know, Trenton, when I was a cop I was involved in incidents where I had firsthand knowledge of exactly what happened…when I read about it in the newspaper, the reporter had managed to tell a completely different story than what actually happened…that happened on a regular basis actually…..I dont know if the reporters were inept or if their mindsets and prejudices affected their writing or if they just plain made stuff up, but they were wrong…..maybe know one else knew it that read that newspaper, but I did….I feel the same about you right now…I actually dont think you have any bad motives, I think your motives are honorable but I think youre wrong..you know a lot of people thought that John and Patsy Ramsey had something to do with killing their daughter John Benet and they got crucified in the press for years….I never did got on that bandwagon because the evidence was not there and a few others didnt either..the main investigator quit his job because the direction they were going with the investigation and hounding the ramseys…now we have irrefutable evidence of an intruder which other investigators knew all along….but everybody was sure that the ramseys did it and it wasnt so..and I could go on….Trenton, you could be wrong..You have been wrong. You called me a viscious viper and yet you were wrong. My family and friends also attest to the person I am…I am sure your parents raised you well and they did good. But for me to point out one facet of your life that is out of whack and is affecting other things in your life does not take away from who you are and from what your parents did. I have read a lot of your posts and you do talk down to people who dont see things your way and they have expressed that to you..You disagree with them about that again and then talk in a patronizing manner to them…I have seen what they say to you…You will disagree and say that you are not but that is definitely their perception and mine also as a third party…it has to be coming from somewhere..it doesnt make you a bad person, not even a bad Christian, but it is still there and needs to be dealt with..This is not an attribute that Jesus had…Trenton, I can recognize this because that was me at one time..and God dealt with me because I would not listen to those around me and I got humbled and it hurt but it made me a better person and a better Christian and I thank Him for the day he hit me up the side of my hard head …..
No, Trenton, I dont believe the accusations against Todd Bentley….to believe anything like that would be to believe in this large conspiracy that this large group of my brothers and sisters in Christ got together and are backing up with zeal and their own lives this man who is all just a lie….Todd Bentley is just a man and as such he doesnt deserve to be examined under this microscope although he has admitted in writing to his past which includes stuff that I , myself, would never speak about again (since its supposed to washed away by the blood, right?) ….. I think you have nothing, Trenton….I would hope that you could for just a minute back up and look at this with an unprejudiced mind…You say you had a dream from God, ok, I cant argue with that ….But do you have the guts to set the dream aside for a short time and look at things without that overshadowing and see if the evidence actually lines up with what your dream said…. Im talking about just looking at the evidence that is there and not coloring it with the dream information…Then see if they match up…I have this book and I will send it to you…if you can read every word of it and still say the same things then so be it..and I do believe that you are a man of his word and would read every word of it if you told me you would…but leave behind all your preconceived ideas and take everything at face value, no more, no less..you may say that you dont have any preconceived ideas but the dream has colored everything you think…test it……that is my challenge…let me know and I will send it to you………monte
July 14th, 2008 - 00:13
I have done that Monte. I have watched quite a few videos of Todd Bentley, and this “revival”, and the evidence is quite clear. Most of it is flesh, and the devil. People are also getting healed, God told me they were. When people are looking to God, they can be healed. But, I have seen MUCH evidence of demons in the videos.
Let me ask you a simple question Monte. If a person gets up to preach, and is unable to, because they JUST KEEP LAUGHING, and being disorderly, and are never able to actually preach, or speak a single word of God. Does this line up with Paul’s dissertation of having order in the church? Do you honestly believe that Paul would approve of such things? Is there any backing in the Word of God that would approve of such things? When women writhe around on the floor like snakes, or UNCONTROLLABLY shake all over the place, and come out with just as much sin as before, would the apostles approve of such things?
I will email you with my address. I cannot give you my word that I will read every word, as I am not sure I have the time. But I will definitely try.
July 14th, 2008 - 09:47
In the book of Acts, outsiders thought the disciples were drunk on wine when they were under the power of the Holy Spirit…well, I dont know if you know what a bunch of drunk people look like but I do and I can only imagine what the disciples were looking like at pentecost….what I see in the Lakeland revival is akin to that in my estimation….and this is a stretch for me, too, by the way…I have been a baptist all of my life and this is not what I see in my church but as I have stated earlier I want to look at everything with no preconceived ideas…all the stuff that you are talking about were hurdles for me to get over…I finally set that stuff aside and started looking at the fruit of what was happening…the first thing that hit me was the raw emotion of those coming up on stage claiming they had been miraculously healed while in the audience without Todd even touching them…there were so many and it was overwhelming…..one of the turning points for me was when they gave an altar call for those to come up and receive Jesus…a girl about 20 or so came up to receive the Lord and todd asked her why she was coming to receive Jesus and she said “because Ive seen my mother in a wheelchair unable to walk for 17 years and tonight I saw her get out of her wheelchair and walk and I want Jesus too!” …..her words took my breath away…this is the very purpose of signs and wonders and healings, to bring people to Christ and that was what was happening….
I dont want to go into a long thing on your other points but i feel I should address them…. as I have talked with my pastor about these things in the past I have asked him “do you think that when people raise their hands during worship that they are all doing it because they are praising the Lord?” My answer is “no”….some are doing it because their neighbor raised his hands or because nearly everybody else was doing it…..peer pressure, right? of course…ok, some of that has to be going on in these meetings also as it would anywhere and there has to be some people that are just mimmicking what they are seeing around them..there has to be some of that and Todd bentley has even addressed that from time to time…he has no control over that and it is actually expected when you get a bunch of imperfect Christians and a lot of seeking non-Christians with all sorts of ailments, many brought on by demonic oppression and even possession…yes the demons will be there…..you are making huge assumptions about things that other people are experiencing that you and I may not have experienced and calling it demons…I cant go there..while I was cop, I have seen demons manifest right in front of me in people and some of them spoke in tongues too….I knew they were demons at the time…do I think all people who speak in tongues have demons…no…but I have seen it and there is a difference…we cannot take the opinion that we must have a sterile environment in the church, free from all evil before God can do His work….God wants to do His work in those that are messed up even to the point of being demon possessed…they should be there at the Lakeland Revival…it is not my job to sort them out….you are beginning to sound like the ones who criticized Jesus for hanging out with the prostitutes and the tax collector….Todd Bentley has no control over what people are doing if out of themselves or out of demons but he welcomes them to be there so they can find Christ…..I dont think the laughing is disorderly…its a little annoying at times but I am not going to question what someone else’s experience with God is when he is claiming it is the joy of the Lord all over him….the manifestations you speak about come from God’s power on these people….I have not experienced it but i know people who have and they experienced it without looking for it or even knowing it was going to happen and it wasnt at the lakeland revival either…..as far as Paul, approving such things, I would assume he would agree with Peter and defend those who appeared to be drunk with wine but were under the influence of the Holy Spirit instead….Im not sure on what authority you can make the statement that person is “coming out with just as much sin as before”…. that is only something that God knows…Trenton, my friend, you are making many judgments and assumptions that you(or I) just dont have enough information to make nor the authority…. monte
August 12th, 2008 - 21:37
Trenton’s,mine and anybody else’s stand against “anything” whether it’s Todd Bentley,or whatever is BASED on “The Bible”,”The UNCTION,or WITNESS of the Holy Spirit within us and the confirming witness of others(who “judge” by the Bible NOT what they see) and the fruit and character of someone’s life and ministry.
We are required to:
*Test the fruit
*Judge doctrine
*Test the spirits – 1 Jn. 4:1
ALL by the BIBLE
Gal 1:8
But235 though2532, 1437 we,2249 or2228 an angel32 from1537 heaven,3772 preach any other gospel2097 unto you5213 than3844 that3739 which we have preached2097 unto you,5213 let him be2077 accursed.331
The TRUE gospel is:
*”Jesus Christ and HIM Crucifed” – “the apostles doctrine” the Bible and nothing else!
We reject Todd Bentley,because:
*His character,doctrine and ministry fail EVERY biblical test there is!
a)there are more than enough reports around the internet of him hearing from and calling on an Angel called “emma” actually “Emma-O “Enchantree” aka Satan” as well as an angel called “Purity” in his meetings.This obviously a demon spirit.
*That’s enough for me,but it goes on!
b)Praying for people “in name of the anointing” Where is THAT in the Bible?
c)Demonic tattoos -which one poster on this blog,or maybe another said Todd didn’t have 6 yrs ago
d)A convicted pedophile who refuses to be accountable
e)mentors: Patricia King(still in the occult,it would seem),Paul Cain(practicing homosexual and drunkard),who are not only false prohets,but knew about all of Todd’s false doctrines.
*the Kansas City Prophets has proven itself to be a :”false revival” like “the florida outpouring” BECAUSE it fails EVERY biblical test ie: false doctrine,demonic behaviour,sinful behaviour,etc
f)One poster from Todd Bentley’s hometown said that although he claims to be an ex-biker,none of the bikers around there have ever heard of him!Sounds like either he’s lying,or they don’t want to admit to knowing him!I wonder why?
g)There are numerous accounts of people coming away from his meetings with headaches,dizzyness,oppression,depression and all kinds of other problems.
h)A friend heard that a pastor in Florida had to cast demons out of 29 of his church members who went see this FALSE PROPHET!
i) Bad tongues
j)Never opens his bible,or mentions the name of “Jesus] Christ of Nazareth]”
k)Ask people to accept him without questioning!
(Sadly,a lot of churches are like that now!)
I could go on,but that should be more than enough!
Suffice to say,that the great falling away of 2 Thess.2 is really happening !
Why:
*People are not praying and checking their Bibles about things
*They’re just blindly accepting things -New Age/Hindu teaching!
2Ti 4:3 For1063 the time2540 will come2071 when3753 they will not3756 endure430 sound5198 doctrine;1319 but235 after2596 their own2398 lusts1939 shall they heap2002 to themselves1438 teachers,1320 having itching2833 ears;189
2Ti 4:4 And2532 they shall turn away654 their ears189 from575, (3303) the3588 truth,225 and1161 shall be turned1624 unto1909 fables.3454
*People get mad and attack anybody who stands against Todd Bentley and falsely claim the person is not in love,is judging(a lot of people are really mixed up on the difference between “passing judgement without knowing all the facts” and “discerning -after getting the facts”).
*Pastors -who obviously have no discernment are approving this false prophet,putting their flocks in grave danger,because they refuse to scrutinize by the Bible and instead claim “oh,alot of salvations and healings are coming thru Todd’s ministry,but he is getting attacked heavily on the internet. I say “Rubbish!” The truth is “his sheeple” are attacking anybody who refuses to accept him.
August 12th, 2008 - 22:36
Good point. However, if people were in the Word, they would know the true from the false immediately. They wouldn’t even have to go and search the scriptures.